Please help me understand the basics
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started by: walterbyrdwalterbyrd
on: 1206025852|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
number of posts: 3
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Please help me understand the basics
walterbyrdwalterbyrd 1206025852|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

I have been reading the headlines, and it smells like a scam to me. But, with my limited knowledge of the process, I can not say for sure. I have tried reading some articles on wikipedia, but there are still some things that I don't understand.

Who gets to vote? As I understand it, only the 157 member bodies get to vote. These are call "P" members or participating national bodies, correct? But, I seem to remember reading something about P-members coming out of the woodwork just to support Microsoft on the OOXML standard, and that these P-members are all Microsoft partners. How can this be?

What is the significance of the ECMA? I have read that the ECMA was actually created by Microsoft, for Microsoft, and is composed of Microsoft partners. Why would ISO recognize such a committee, and why don't Microsoft competitors contest the existence of such an obvious self-serving organization? What sort of clout does the ECMA have?

What are the standards for "fast-tracking?" I have read that fast-tracking is used to speed the processing of standards that are essentially uncontested. I have also read that fast-tracking was created by the ECMA specifically to help Microsoft push OOXML through the ISO - and it is not used for anything else.

Is there any clear evidence of Microsoft bribery, or ballot-stuffing, or otherwise breaking the rules, or corrupting the process? For example, I remember reading something about Microsoft bribing some official in Sweden.

I have about an incident where those who might not support the OOXML standard where not allowed to vote because there where not enough chairs, or the room was full, or something. If this did happen, then that is clearly not fair. Can anybody file a complaint? Or does Microsoft control everything?

unfold Please help me understand the basics by walterbyrdwalterbyrd, 1206025852|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: Please help me understand the basics
arebentiarebenti 1206152559|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

P and O "members" are national standard bodies. P-status indicates that you intend to regularly participate in the meeting. You can upgrade from O to P status but only recently the more or less stable P membership in the relevant commitees was expanded. Nations where the names speak for themselves

You are eg. a p member of the JTC1 committee The p and O votes matter for the vote.
http://www.robweir.com/blog/2007/09/how-to-hack-iso.html

"Old Guard" NB's appear to be those like Canada, France, New Zealand, Japan, Korea, Ireland, China or Norway that voted against OOXML. The new blood presumably are countries like Cote d'Ivoire, Syria, Kazakhstan and Tanzania that are participating in JTC1 for the first time, and voting in favor of OOXML.

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The way National Standards bodies decide on the spec is regulated depending on national rules. In most nations the national committee members vote. Some nations don't even have real committees. Here again commitee stuffing is possible among others. Mysterious was e.g. the Cubanian vote where Cuba actually submitted an approval vote although the decision was disapproval.

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"I have also read that fast-tracking was created by the ECMA specifically to help Microsoft push OOXML through the ISO - and it is not used for anything else."

No. Fast-track is for rubberstamping an existing standard as an ISO standard. E.g you have a national standard and want to upgrade it as an ISO standard. Also A liaision partners as ECMA can submit standards. The premise is of course that they submit good work. ECMA at the BRM was represented by Brian Jones (OOXML Microsoft) and J. Paoli (Microsoft). The editor of the standard, Rex Jaeschke has also strong Microsoft affiliations. And Jan van den Belt who retired as a Ecma Gen Sec now works for Microsoft's lobby outfit compTIA. True is, that Jan van den Belt contributed to the development of fast-track procedures that underwent another revision just when OOXML was introduced. The parts that were changed in the latest revision are relevant and do indeed weaken the fast-track process.

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complaints are of course possible and will follow.

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last edited on 1206152830|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover by arebenti + show more
unfold Re: Please help me understand the basics by arebentiarebenti, 1206152559|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: Please help me understand the basics
metuxmetux 1212523886|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Hi,

could you please summarize your knowledge about these corrupt folks on one page ?
I'm currently collecting ideas how to move against these people.
Also I'm planning an wide boycott initiative against ISO and DIN and an initiative for an
new German standarization organisation.

If you're interested in this, please let me know: ed.xutem|tlegiew#ed.xutem|tlegiew

cu

unfold Re: Please help me understand the basics by metuxmetux, 1212523886|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
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